10. Finding Venture Capital | Jenny McLean + Darren Engels

Jenny McLean (00:46.229) thank you. Okay, welcome to artificial breakdown. We're live at adventures. Very exciting. That's a little experimenting happening here. So we have Jenny McLean, is the chief marketing officer at Taylor adventures. And we have Darren angles, who is the chief engagement officer, we have our CEO here and founder. Welcome. Thank you so much for having us. ZGM Marketing Inc. (01:03.146) And we have Darren Angels, is the Chief Regatron Officer. We have our CEO here and founder. Welcome. Thank you so much, Raminas. Thank you for taking time out of your busy week. is busy one. a crazy one, Are you here all three days? Yes. Yeah. Carrie Robinson (01:04.276) And we have Darren Angles, who is the chief engagement officer. have our CEO here and founder. Welcome. Thank you so much for having us. Thanks for taking time out of this busy week. It is a busy one. is a crazy one, yes. Are you here all three days? Yes. Just busy, packed. Well, and it just seems like everything conference season happens, and everything happens all at once. So we are at this conference, and also another speaking engagement tomorrow. So we're doing a session here tomorrow. Darren Engels (01:04.332) And we have Darren Angles, who is the chief engagement officer. have our CEO here and founder. Welcome. Thank you so much, Rampest. Thank you. for taking time out of this busy week. It is is a crazy one, yes. Are you here all through this? Yes. Yeah, we are actually. busy, huh? Well, and it just seems like everything, conference season happens and everything happens all at once. So we are at this conference and also another speedy engagement tomorrow. We're doing a session here tomorrow. Jenny McLean (01:14.681) It is a busy one. Are you here all through this? Yes. Just busy packed? Well, it just seems like everything conference season happens and everything happens all at once. So we are at this conference and also another speaking engagement tomorrow. So we're doing a session here tomorrow. Our VP is doing a session right now, which we just had to abandon early to come here. whatever, this is more fun. ZGM Marketing Inc. (01:21.081) Just busy craft. Well, it just seems like everything conference season happens and everything happens all at once. Right. This conference and also another is the engagement tomorrow. So we're doing a session here tomorrow. Our beauty is doing a session right now, which we just have to abandon early. I've come here. This is working. I was going to say, And then, know, so Darren and I are doing a session tomorrow here and then Darren's running off to do another session at the. Darren Engels (01:32.878) her VP student session right now, which we would have abandoned him early to come here. then, this is more fun. then, know, so Darren and I are doing a session tomorrow here and then Darren's working off to do another session at the... The petroleum club. The petroleum club. And then I'm off to love some of their speak and trying to fit in everything else in between. But this is a fun one. I'm to hear that. I know. This is a good one. Mine too. You have a chance to... Carrie Robinson (01:32.905) for VPC in a session right now, which we just have to abandon him early to come here. Whatever, this is more fun. And then, you know, so Darren and I are doing a session tomorrow here and then Darren's running off to do another session at the petroleum club. wow. And then I'm off to Web Summit next week and trying to fit in everything else in between. But this is a fun one. we're Yeah, I know. This is my first time here. It's wild. Jenny McLean (01:40.857) And then, know, so Darren and I are doing a session tomorrow here and then Darren's running off to do another session at the petroleum club for some oil and gas stuff. And then I'm off to Web Summit next week and trying to fit in everything else in between. But this is a fun one. So we're happy to hear. ZGM Marketing Inc. (01:47.609) Nice And mine too have you had a chance to did you get a chance to check in to any other sessions at all or Carrie Robinson (02:01.141) My two. Have you had a chance to, did you get a chance to check in to any other sessions at all or? Just with Spencer. Oh, right. Yeah. Otherwise I have barely noticed that at all. There's a lot of conversations. Yeah. We were just ushered into our den over here. I haven't really been out for air yet. We got reviews. Well, maybe we should start a little bit with just tail. Darren Engels (02:05.198) Any other sessions? Just with Spencer. Oh, right. Yeah, otherwise I have barely on my own inside of the lobby just chatting with people. Jenny McLean (02:05.481) Thank very much. ZGM Marketing Inc. (02:08.633) Just with Spencer. Oh, right. Okay. Otherwise, have barely noticed that in a long time. Yeah, were just ushered into our den over here and I haven't really been out for air yet. So, yeah, that's true. Yeah, totally. Well, maybe we should start a little bit with just tailwinds. If you don't mind just a little explainer what tailwinds is and what you do. Sure. Jenny McLean (02:08.673) Just with Spencer. right. Yeah. There's a lot of conversations we had. Darren Engels (02:21.474) We've got a great view, we can't stop and look. Well, maybe we can start a little bit. Jenny McLean (02:34.877) Sure. First, I just need, as the Chief Marketing Officer, you did not use an S on the end. It's tailwind. No, not tailwinds. Easy mistake. Derek, do want to share? Darren Engels (02:35.182) Sure. First thing is that she's working on, sir. I you to not use an S on the end. That's tailwinded. No, I tailwinds. I'm the same. Yeah, I'm you on it. Sure. Tailwinds started 2018, late 2018. And it was really to try to bring Carrie Robinson (02:35.221) Sure. First thing to think as the Chief Marketing Officer, I mean, you did not use an S on the end. It's tailwinds. No, not tailwinds. As marketers, we can respect that. Easy mistake. I was going to go with that or tailwindings. Yeah, Aaron, do want to add? Sure. Tailwinds started in 2018. And it was really to try to frame ZGM Marketing Inc. (02:35.737) Yeah. First thing to think, as the Chief Marking Officer, I mean, you do not use an S on the end. It's tailwinded. Oh. No, not tailwinds. I'm sorry. I was going to go with that or tailwinding, so I'm glad. Yeah, Gary, you want to share? Sure. Tailwinds started 2018. It was really to try to bring. Jenny McLean (03:02.317) And it was really to try to bring structured or near-stage, cross-stage governance from a past institutional investment. So we kind of found in that process, we found all those things where it's called diligent preparedness. And how can we prepare companies so that they keep moving from a state of uncompetence to competence to trust where they'll be trusted. ZGM Marketing Inc. (03:05.096) structured earlier stage growth stage companies from a past institutional investment banking. So we kind of felt in that process we fell in love with these words called diligent preparedness. And how can we diligently prepare companies so that they can move from a state of incompetence to competence to trust where they will be trusted to any real respected trust by the investors. Right. Darren Engels (03:05.098) structured or earlier stage growth stage companies from my past institutional investment banking. So we kind of felt in that process, we fell in love with these words called diligent preparedness. And how can we diligently prepare companies so that they can move from a state of incompetence to competence to trust where they will be trusted to earn the respect of trust by the investors. Right. Right. Carrie Robinson (03:05.161) structured earlier stage growth stage companies from my past institutional investment. So we kind of felt in that process, we fell in love with these words called diligent preparedness. And how can we diligently prepare companies so that they can move from a state of uncompetence to competence to trust where they will be trusted to any earned respect to trust by the investors. Right, right. Jenny McLean (03:29.817) to any of the respective trust by the investors. So for us, was like putting in that rigor, kind of like as we've fallen over this bit as an analogy, like we're preparing for the Olympics. The company is working really hard over a long duration, potentially, to get into the Olympics, to get into the investor union, to get an investor investment. Darren Engels (03:34.7) So for us, was like putting in that rigor, kind of like as we've even fallen in love with this a bit as an allergy is like, we're preparing for the Olympics. The company is working really hard over a long duration, potentially, to get into the Olympics, to get into the investor meeting, to podium, to get an investor investment. Carrie Robinson (03:34.741) So for us, was like putting in that rigor, kind of like as we fall in love with this, it's like we're preparing for the Olympics. The company is working really hard over a long duration, potentially, to get into the Olympics, to get into the investor meeting, to podium, to get investor investment. This must be harder, like everything I'm assuming from financials to how they're. ZGM Marketing Inc. (03:34.744) So for us, was like putting in that rigor, kind of like as we fall in love with this business analogy, it's like we're preparing for the Olympics. The company is working really hard over a long duration, potentially, to get into the Olympics, to get into the investor meeting, to podium, to get investor invested. And this must cover like everything I'm assuming from financials to how they're marketing and packaging themselves to how maybe logistics like what is that what do you kind of cover in that preparedness? I guess we're trying to remove the null of a capital provider or remove the fraction of Right. And it's in a competitive role for capital. Yeah. So how Jenny McLean (04:01.88) financial, marketing, and packaging themselves, to how we're be realistic. What is that? What do you cover in that preparedness? I guess we're trying to remove the null of a capital provider or remove the fraishing or barriers, right? And it's a competitive role for capital. So how... Carrie Robinson (04:02.837) marketing and packaging themselves to logistics, what do you cover in that preparedness? I guess we're trying to remove the null of a capital provider or remove friction or barriers, right? And it's a competitive world for capital. Darren Engels (04:03.832) themselves to how this thing, what is that? I guess we're trying to remove the null of a capital provider or remove friction or barriers, right? And it's a competitive world for capital. So how, but if you're diligently prepared as a company, you should be sitting on top of the thousands of pitch decks that VC or private equity firm will get because you're so well prepared for their money. Carrie Robinson (04:25.749) So how, but if you're diligently prepared as a company, you should be sitting on top of the thousands of pinchecks that they see or probably that preferable gap because you're so well prepared for their money. Jenny McLean (04:27.565) But if you're diligently prepared as a company, you should be sitting on top of the thousands of pitch decks that you see or private equity from the VIA because you're so well prepared for their money. Right. So it's, it's encompassing, it's from, it's the softball fee stuff, which I don't think it is, which is vision of purpose and how we tie that into something we call pick two and how we encapsulate that all into like ZGM Marketing Inc. (04:27.576) But if you're diligently prepared as a company, you should be sitting on top of the... Thousands of pitch next to the sea or private equity for it will get because you're so low or parent for their money, right? Right. So it's very it's encompassing is from It's the soft fluffy stuff, which I don't think is which is vision of purpose and how we tie that into something we call big two and how we encapsulate that all into like a strategy problem solution how that all rolls into a financial model and how that capital Carrie Robinson (04:40.745) Right. Right. So it's, it's, it's encompassing. It's from, it's the soft, fluffy stuff, which I don't think is, which is vision or purpose and how we tie that into something we call big two and how we encapsulate that all into like a go to market strategy, problem solution, how that all rolls into a financial model and how that capital provider. Darren Engels (04:41.24) Right? So it's, it's, it's encompassing. It's from, it's the soft, fluffy stuff, which I don't think is, which is vision and purpose and how we tie that into something we call big two and how we encapsulate that all into like a go to market strategy, problem solution, how that all rolls into a financial model and how that capital provider investor is going to make money off this venture. Right. So yeah, it's, it's work. Jenny McLean (04:56.345) the market strategy, problem solution, how that all rolls into a financial model and how that capital reminder for could be made off this venture. Right. So yeah, it's work. That's a lot of work. It does. It covers a lot of ground and a big part of it is helping our clients, the companies to understand what an investor is going to be looking for. Carrie Robinson (05:03.765) going to make money off this venture. So yeah, it's work. That's a lot of work. It covers a lot of ground. ZGM Marketing Inc. (05:03.768) investors going to make money off this venture. So yeah, it's it's work. It's a lot of work. It's a lot of a big part of it is helping me our clients to understand what an investor is going to be looking for. not to say that you should fit yourself in the mold of an Darren Engels (05:11.118) That's a lot of work. Yeah. does help. It covers a lot of work. A big part of it is helping our clients understand what an investor is going to be looking for. not to say that you should fit yourself into the mold of an investor, but to understand how do you frame yourself? do you speak your language? How do you meet them where they are at? So that you come with everything well in order. All of your... Carrie Robinson (05:15.509) A big part of it is helping me, our clients, the companies to understand what an investor is going to be looking for. I mean, not to say that you should fit yourself into the mold of an investor, but to understand, how do you frame yourself? How do you speak their language? How do you meet them where they're at so that you come with everything well in order? All of your materials flow into the financials. All of your financials are justified and backed up by everything else. And it's all encompassed in the evidence-based narrative that we've developed with the Jenny McLean (05:23.223) I mean, not to say that you should fit yourself into the mold of an investor, but to understand, how do you frame yourself? How do you speak their language? How do you meet them where they're at so that you come with everything well in order? All of your materials flow into the financials. All of your financials are justified and backed up by everything else. And it's all encompassed in the evidence-based narrative that we've developed with the company so that they can tell their really compelling story and create some connection and, you know, ZGM Marketing Inc. (05:26.109) but to understand how do you frame yourself, how do you speak their language, how do you meet them where they are at, so that you come with everything well in order. All of your materials flow into the financials, all of your financials are justified and mapped up by everything else. And it's all encompassed in the evidence-based narrative that we've developed with the company, so that they can tell their really compelling story and create some connection and... Darren Engels (05:36.366) materials flow into the financials. All of your financials are justified and backed up by everything else. And it's all encompassed in the evidence-based narrative that we've developed with the company so that they can tell their really compelling story, create the connection and, you know, interest while also really having a substance behind it all to support it. Carrie Robinson (05:45.415) company so that they can tell their really compelling story and create some connection and, you know, some interest while also really having the substance behind it all. Right. To support it. Must be a pretty wide breadth of the team to kind of handle all of the areas of how big is tailwind? There's eight of us right now. you know, have a team of associates in their role of finance ZGM Marketing Inc. (05:52.255) You know, substance interests. also really having the substance behind it all. Just a pretty wide breadth of the team to kind of handle all of the areas of a, big is tailwind? the, you we've had associates and they're all finance, projects, they're such a curious, intelligent, bright young people that the, Jenny McLean (05:53.029) some interest while also really having the substance behind it all to support it. Darren Engels (06:05.934) How big is it? There's eight of us right now. The associates and they're all finance projects, but they're such curious, intelligent, right? that they look at all of it. they come out of the finance background, but they're digging into everything to understand them. Okay, what problem are you solving? How are you solving that? How have you found product market fit? What kind of market is there that you can address? Jenny McLean (06:05.945) There's eight of us right now. We have a team of associates and they're all finance graduates, but they're such curious, intelligent, bright young people that they look at all of it. they come at it with a finance background, but they're digging into everything to understand like, what problem are you solving? How are you solving that? How have you found product market fit? What kind of market is there that you can address? Carrie Robinson (06:15.319) projects, but they're such curious, intelligent, bright young people that they look at all of it. So they come out with a finance background, but they're digging into everything to understand like, what problem are you solving? How are you solving that? How have you found product market fit? What kind of market is there that you can address? But what are all the qualitative pieces that feed into that? It's really not just a quantitative game. It's very, very qualitative as well. And so we have a really well-rounded ZGM Marketing Inc. (06:22.508) They look at all of it so they have the finance background, but they're digging everything to understand like okay What problem are you solving? How are you solving that? How have you found product marketing fit? What kind of market is there that you can address? But what are all the quality that feed into that? You know, it's really not just a quantitative game. It's very very qualitative as well. And so we have a really well-rounded team in that sense, but so for me and marketing I come from a Jenny McLean (06:35.075) What are all the qualitative pieces that feed into that? You know, it's really not just a quantitative game. It's very, very qualitative as well. And so we have a really well-rounded team in that sense. so for me, I'm marketing. I come from a background of marketing communications. I did my masters in communications. so I'm nowhere on the finance side. But then Darren and Spencer have a banking background. And they bring that. Darren Engels (06:35.096) What are all the qualitative pieces that feed into that? Really not just a quantitative thinking that's very, very colorful as well. And so we have a really well-rounded team in that sense. so for me, I'm marketing. I come from a background of marketing communications. I did my master's in communications. And so I'm nowhere on the finance right. But then Aaron and Spencer have a banking background. And they bring that. Carrie Robinson (06:45.309) team in that sense. so for me I'm marketing. I come from a background of marketing communications. I did my masters in communications and so I'm nowhere on the finance side. But then Darren and Spencer have a banking background and they ZGM Marketing Inc. (06:51.612) of marketing communications, I did my masters in communications and so I'm nowhere on the finance side but then Darren and Spencer have a banking background and they bring that depth of expertise on the finance side and then all together we fill in all of the gaps between. Carrie Robinson (07:03.189) They bring that depth of expertise on the finance side. And then all together, we fill in all of the gaps between everything that's required. Aaron's really, he's chief engagement officer, chief executive officer, chief executive officer for a reason because he's the relationship, he's the stories, he's our guy. Yeah, I love this mix of humanity in all of it because sometimes people are like, it's just money. It's like there's so much more to it. It's such a relationship. Jenny McLean (07:04.567) depth of expertise on the finance side. And then all together, we fill in all of the gaps between everything that's required. Darren is really our, he's a chief engagement officer, not chief executive officer for a reason, because he's the relationship, he's the stories, he's our guy. Yeah, I love this, this mix of humanity and all of it. It's just money. There's so much more to it. Darren Engels (07:04.61) got the expertise on the finance side and then all together we fill in all of the gaps between everything was required. Gary is really our, he's chief engagement officer, not chief executive officer. Not chief executive officer for a reason because he's the relationship, he's the stories, he's our guy. Yeah, I love this, this mix of humanity and all of it. know, sometimes people are like, it's just money. It's there's so much more of it. It's such a relationship business. ZGM Marketing Inc. (07:11.922) Yeah Carrie Robinson (07:33.095) Yeah. Finance heads, guess. Right. But it's still relationship. Right. Well, yeah, because like you said, you have to trust each other. And can't build trust over a cup of coffee is a duration of proving trust and confidence. So I guess probably the most obvious question that I want to ask just from our perspective as an AI podcast is so when you have all of these investors and you're helping people find them. Darren Engels (07:33.954) We're finance heads, I guess, but it's so relationship oriented. Well, yeah, because as you said, you have to trust each other. Yeah, and you can build trust over a cup of coffee. It's a duration of proving trust and competency. So I guess probably the most obvious question that I want to ask, just from our perspective as an AI podcast, is so when you have all these investors in your house, Jenny McLean (07:34.905) It's so relationship. Well, yeah, because like you said, you have to trust each other. Yeah, you can go trust over a cup of coffee's duration of proving trust. So I guess probably the most obvious question I want to ask just from our perspective as an AI podcast is so we have all these investors and you're helping people find them. What are investors looking for? ZGM Marketing Inc. (07:41.768) each other. Yeah, you can build trust over a cup of coffee. It's a duration of proving trust in companies. So I guess probably the most obvious question that I want to ask, just from our perspective as an AI podcast, is so when you have all of these investors and you're helping people find them, what are investors looking for around AI? What are you guys hearing around that? Is it a lot? Is it a little? Is it they don't want it? Carrie Robinson (08:02.557) What are investors looking for around AI? What are you guys hearing around that? Is it a lot? Is it a little? Is it they don't want it? they definitely want it. It's almost a table stakes at this point, though. Yeah, is. It's whether your AI is a solution that's your revenue stream or how are you incorporating AI? Darren Engels (08:02.574) What are investors looking for around AI? What are you guys figuring around that? Is it a lot? Is it a little? Is it they don't want it? Well, they definitely want it. It sounds like a couple of days at this point though, right? Yeah, it is. Whether it's your AI solution as to your revenue stream or how are you incorporating AI to make the business more efficient or optimize it, right? Which is essentially... Jenny McLean (08:04.409) around AI. What are you guys hearing around that? Is it a lot? Is it a little? Is it they don't want it? Oh, they just don't want it. It's almost a table stakes at this point though. Yeah, it is. Whether it be your AI is a solution that's your revenue stream or how do you incorporate AI to make the business more efficient or optimize it, right? Which is essentially ZGM Marketing Inc. (08:11.08) they definitely want it. It's a table stakes at this point though. Yeah, it is. It's whether your AI is a solution that's your revenue stream or how are you incorporating AI to make the business more efficient or optimize it, right? Which is essentially how do you improve your margins by being more efficient, right? Carrie Robinson (08:27.669) to make the business more efficient or optimize it, right? Which is essentially how do you improve your margins by being more efficient, right? Do you feel like it's gotten a little bit too skewed perhaps in the AI world, especially amongst like startups that they feel that almost cramming in AI for this reason alone, or do you think that's a non-issue? I think... Jenny McLean (08:33.933) How do you your art if I need more efficient training? Do you feel like it's a lot more than just keeping perhaps in the AI world? Darren Engels (08:33.944) How do you improve your margins by being more efficient, right? ZGM Marketing Inc. (08:38.166) Do feel like it's gotten a little bit too skewed perhaps in the AI world, especially amongst like startups that they feel the almost cramming in AI for this reason alone or do you think it's that's a non-issue? think there might be a need realize that it because that's where the investor world is so focused right now. even that can be so skewed. Jenny McLean (08:52.249) That's enough. Darren Engels (08:54.798) I think there might be an over reliance like they need it because that's where the investor world is so focused right now. even that can be so skewed. I wish I knew the stats off the top of my head. usually do. Like AI deal terms like is like a percentage of like the last quarter's financing is going to be weighted to AI. But there might be one massive check in there like to Jenny McLean (08:54.827) I they're like, they need it because that's where the industrial world is so focused right now. But even that can be so skewed. I wish I could stab myself in the head. I usually do. Carrie Robinson (08:56.415) there might be no reliance like they need it because that's where the investor world is so focused right now. But even that can be so skewed. I wish I knew the stats off the top of my head. usually do. The ideal terms like as like a percentage of like the last quarter's finances is going to be waiting to AI. But there might be one massive check in there. ZGM Marketing Inc. (09:07.71) I wish I knew the stats off the top of my head. usually do. Like AI yield terms, like a percentage of like the last quarter's finances. It's gonna be AI. But there might be one massive check in there. Jenny McLean (09:12.185) The ideal term is like a percentage of the last quarter's is going to be AI. But there might be one massive check in there, like to check GPT or another huge AI platform that's skewing it. So you have to kind of dissect the numbers to get the true story. I think that's happened a couple of times. So when we look at the broader market data, Carrie Robinson (09:23.507) like to Jack GPT or another like huge AI platform that skewed it, right? So you have to kind of dissect the numbers to get the true story. I think that that's happened a couple of times when so when we look at the broader market data, you know, it's like, okay, well, overall deal volume is up, but deal count is actually down because there is a couple of these big whales that they think are Q4. I want to say there were four or five companies that were all ZGM Marketing Inc. (09:23.507) like to check GPT or another like huge AI platform that's skewing it, right? So you have to kind of dissect the numbers to get the true story. Darren Engels (09:24.536) chat GPT or another like huge AI platform that's skewing it, right? So you have to kind of dissect the numbers to get the true story, right? Jenny McLean (09:41.401) Um, you know, it's like, okay, well overall deal volume is up, but deal count is actually down because there's a couple of these big whales. Like I think, uh, Q4, want to say there were four or five companies that were all massive AI companies that raise these huge, huge checks. And so, you you look at it, it's like, like 50 or 70 % or whatever it is of all deal flow into AI, but like, okay, well, half of that was just a small number of companies. And so it really does. Carrie Robinson (09:53.383) massive AI companies that raise these huge, huge checks. And so, you you look at it as like, oh, like 50 or 70 % or whatever it is of all deal flow into AI, but like, okay, well half of that was just a small number of companies. And so it really does, it kind of speaks to that bigger challenge of, everybody wants it, but they want the whales, they want the shirt thing. And so all these companies that are like, okay, well we're an AI company, we're going to build some, something with AI, but they kind of forget that ZGM Marketing Inc. (09:53.383) Massive AI companies that raise these huge huge checks and so, you you look at it's like oh like 50 or 70 percent or whatever it is of all deal flow into AI but like okay Well half of that was just a small number of companies and so it really does it kind of speaks to that bigger challenge of everybody wants it but they want the whales they want the shirt thing and so all these companies that are Like okay. Well, we're in AI Darren Engels (09:53.646) massive AI companies that raise these huge, huge checks. so you look at it, it's like, oh, like 50 or 70 % of all people going to AI, but like half of that was just a small number of companies. so it really does, it kind of speaks to that bigger challenge of everybody wants it. We want the short thing. And so all these companies are like, okay, well we're in AI. Jenny McLean (10:10.347) It kind of speaks to that bigger challenge of, everybody wants it, but they want the whales, they want the sure thing. And so then you have all these companies that are like, okay, well, we're an AI company, we're going to build something with AI, but they kind of forget that they, you have to find a problem to solve first. can't, you can't just go a tool or like a technology out in the world and say, we're going to do X, Y, Z with AI or we're the Uber of whatever, because of AI. And at the end of the day, you still have to solve a problem. Darren Engels (10:19.95) work and build something with AI, but they kind of forget that they, have to find a problem to solve. We can't just throw a tumult or an X, Y, with AI or an Uber or a point to work with AI and at the the day, you still have to solve the problem. And if that's a tool that helps you get there, that's great. We talk about that a lot where it's like AI is a solution to a problem. It's not the first thing you go to. ZGM Marketing Inc. (10:20.405) something with AI, but they kind of forget that they have to find a problem to solve. You can't just throw a tool or a technology out in the world and say, we're going to do X, Y, Z with AI, or we're the Uber of whatever because of AI. at the end of the day, you still have to solve a problem. And if that's a tool that helps you get there, that's great. We talk about that a lot, where it's like AI is a solution to a problem. It's not the first thing you need to go to. We talk about automation. Carrie Robinson (10:23.287) the problem to solve. You can't just throw a tool or a technology out in the world and say, we're going to do x, y, of AI or Uber of whatever because of AI. at the end of the day, you still have to solve a problem. And if that's a tool that helps you get there, that's great. We talk about that a lot where it's like AI is solution to a problem. It's not the first thing you need to go to. We talked about automation and stuff at work and like, what's the problem? Jenny McLean (10:39.193) And if that's a tool that helps you get there, that's great. We talk about that a lot. It's not the first thing you need to go to. What's the problem? Is the solution just working? I love that you guys actually digs into that. Yeah. Darren Engels (10:48.974) You know, we talked about automation and stuff like, what's the problem? Is this solution a high grade? Exactly. Is this solution just working a harder? But I love you guys. It sounds like you have a team that actually digs into that. Yeah. And then just let people run off. like, yeah, AMA! Let's see what happens. ZGM Marketing Inc. (10:50.31) and stuff at work and like what's the problem? Is the solution AI great? Exactly what you just said. Is the solution automation? Is the solution just working a little hard? It just depends. But I love that you guys, sounds like you have a team that actually digs into that and doesn't just let people run off. Carrie Robinson (10:53.207) Is the solution AI? Great. Exactly what you just said. Is the solution automation? Great. Is the solution just working a harder? Great. It just depends. But I love that you guys, it sounds like you have a team that actually digs into that and doesn't just let people run off. like, yeah, AI. Let's see what happens. I have a friend who's in fintech and they've gone through a couple rounds of funding and now they're actively trying to... ZGM Marketing Inc. (11:08.789) Yeah, I think it just feels like I have a friend who's in kind of FinTech and they've, gone through a couple of rounds of funding and now they're actively trying to find a way to put AI into their system somehow. Cause they feel like that's going to be on the, the minds of the next round of investment. Right? So it just feels like the, like the tail wagging the dog a little bit, cause they're never force feeding this. Jenny McLean (11:08.791) Yeah, Darren Engels (11:18.36) how they're actively trying to find a way to put AI into your system somehow, because they feel like that's going to be on the minds of the next round of investment. So it just feels like the tail wagging dog a little bit. They're not force feeding this thing in, probably on a roll yet, or hasn't been thought through, or maybe they're wrong for using Carrie Robinson (11:22.025) find a way to put AI into their system somehow, because they feel like that's going to be on the minds of the next round of investment. So it just feels like that. like the tail wagging the dog a little bit because they're now force feeding this thing in that probably doesn't have a role yet or hasn't been thought through for maybe the wrong reasons. So I'm sure you've heard of these companies that are announcing like, we're AI first and no hires until you have tested how AI can support you. I saw a really interesting thing. a few months ago, Klarna, if you do that, like pay as you go app that like you've seen a lot of e-commerce plugins, they went like we're going full AI, like they went all in. ZGM Marketing Inc. (11:36.776) thing in that probably doesn't have a role yet or hasn't been thought through for maybe the wrong reasons, right? So. Jenny McLean (11:40.505) thought through. And I'm sure you've heard of these companies that are announcing like, we're AI first and no hires until you have tested how AI can support you. I saw a really interesting thing. a few months ago, Klarna, they do that like pay to go app that like you see in a lot of e-commerce plugins. They went like we're going fully, they went all in. And then a few months later or however long that was, I just saw it in the last week or so they've been like, actually we. Darren Engels (11:43.246) And I'm sure you've heard of these companies that are announcing, oh, we're AI first and no hires until you have tested how AI can support you. I saw a really interesting thing. a few months ago, Plarna, they do that like pay as you go app that like you see in a lot of e-commerce plugins. They went like we're going full AI, like they went all in. And then a few months later or however long that was, I just saw it in the last week or so, they've been like, actually we... Carrie Robinson (12:02.743) And then a few months later, or however long that was, I just saw in the last week or so, they've been like, actually, we over swung on that. Now we need to actually be human first because like for customer service, for example, like they went all in on AI thinking we're going to save so much money, investors are going to love this. And it was a mitigated disaster there. I think their, their stock took a hit. They've had like just massive complaints because it's at the end of the day, you, you're still dealing with people. You can't remove people from the equation. ZGM Marketing Inc. (12:06.164) as I just saw in the last week or so, they've been like, actually, we over swung on that and we need to actually be human first because like for customer service, for example, like they went all in on AI. Jenny McLean (12:10.815) over swung on that. And we need to actually be human first, because like for customer service, for example, like they went all in on AI thinking we're going to save so much money, investors are going to love this. And it was an unmitigated disaster there. I think their, their stock take a hit. They've had like just massive complaints. Because at the end of the day, like you, you're still dealing with people. You can't remove people from the equation. And I think, so we'll probably see some of that correction more and more like these companies were like, we're going to be better. Darren Engels (12:10.858) over swung on that and we need to actually be human first because like for customer service, for example, like they went all in, yeah, I'm going to save so much money, investors are going to love this. And it was an unmanaging disaster there. think their stock did the hit, they had massive complaints. But at the end of the day, you're still dealing with people. You can't remove people from the equation. so we'll probably see some of that correction more and more. Like these companies were like, we're getting the... ZGM Marketing Inc. (12:18.355) to save so much money, investors are gonna love this, and it was a mitigated disaster there. I think their stock took a hit, they've had massive complaints, because it's at the end of the day, you're still dealing with people. You can't remove people from the equation. I think, so we'll probably see some of that correction more and more. Carrie Robinson (12:32.663) And so we'll probably see some of that correction more and more. Like these companies were like, oh, we're going to be the, we're going be out front, the early adopter, we're going be the leader. And that's cool. I'm glad it's not us doing it or whatever. Like you take those risks. That's true. Yeah. How about within the company itself, are you of using it to maybe help evaluate companies or anything like that? ZGM Marketing Inc. (12:37.757) These companies were like, we're going to be out front, the early duck, we're going be the leader. And that's cool. I thought it's not us doing it. How about within the company itself within Tailwind? you using it to maybe help evaluate companies or anything like that? So I will say we're all fans. I use Gemini. Jenny McLean (12:39.769) We're going to be out front, the early adopter. We're going to be the leader. And that's cool. I'm glad it's not us doing it or whatever. Like you take those risks. That's true. Darren Engels (12:39.822) We're going be out front, but really not. We're going to be the leader. And that's cool. I'm glad it's not us doing it. So keep you in second sometimes. Jenny McLean (12:56.313) using it to maybe help evaluate the company for having my back? So I will say we're all fans. we, I use Gemini, Darren use Chad GPT, Spencer uses Claude. we're all like, well, we haven't committed to anything like enterprise level because we want to test it out and see what are the ways that these tools can help us do our job. We are definitely human analysis first. I think if we can use those tools to help us conduct a faster analysis or Darren Engels (12:56.322) using it to maybe help evaluate companies for having thing like that. So I will say we're all fans. Like the I use Gemini, you use Tri-GPT, Spencer uses Cloud. We're all a culture fan. We haven't committed to anything like enterprise level because we want to test it out and see what are the ways that these tools can help us to our job. We are definitely human analysis first. think if we can use those tools to help us connect with our analysis for Carrie Robinson (13:00.693) So I will say we're all fans. we, I use Gemini, Darren use Chad GPT, Spencer uses Cloud. Oh, the whole trifecta. We haven't committed to anything like enterprise level because we want to test it out and see what are the ways that these tools can help us do our job. We are definitely human analysis first. I think if we can use those tools to help us conduct a faster analysis or, you know, a more in depth complex analysis, we will. But it is definitely ZGM Marketing Inc. (13:05.491) chat to be Spencer uses squad because we want to test it out see what are the ways that these tools can help us to our job we are definitely human analysis first. think if we can use those tools to help us conduct a faster analysis or a more in-depth complex analysis, we will. But it's definitely been something that's been beneficial. we're competing with AI tools all over the place. There's so many of these things. can upload your pitch deck and get AI feedback. true. And honestly, I'm sure they are probably helpful, especially if you're in the early stages, like say fundraising or thinking Jenny McLean (13:25.921) you know, a more in-depth complex analysis, will. But it is definitely been something that's been beneficial. But, you know, we're competing with AI tools all over the place, right? Like, there's so many of things you can upload your pitch deck and get AI feedback. I honestly, like I'm sure they are probably helpful, especially if you're in the early stages of like, say fundraising or thinking that you might want to. But it's never going to give you that company Darren Engels (13:25.934) you know, a more in depth analysis, we will. Um, but it's definitely been something that's been beneficial. Um, but you know, we're, we're competing with AI tools all over the place, right? Like there's so many things you can upload your pitch, definitely get AI. Oh, true. And I honestly, like, I'm sure they are probably helpful, especially if you're in the early stages of like fundraising or thinking you might want to. Um, but it's never going to give you that. Carrie Robinson (13:30.609) even something that's been beneficial. we're competing with AI tools all over the place, right? There's so many of these things. can upload your pitch deck and get AI feedback. true. And honestly, I'm sure they are probably helpful, especially if you're in the early stages of, say, fundraising or thinking you might want to. But it's never going to give you that company-specific, nuanced feedback and input that comes from, frankly, your expertise. ZGM Marketing Inc. (13:49.765) you might want to, but it's never gonna give you that company specific nuanced feedback and input that comes from frankly your expertise and the space of doing them and see how like your company might perform in the current landscape or you some of those more nuanced pieces and so we are open to the tools. Darren loves to do a chat GPT analysis and get some cool insights, right? Darren Engels (13:53.592) company specific nuanced feedback and input that comes from frankly, there's best for these in this phase of doing, and see how like your company might perform in the current landscape or, you know, some of those more nuanced cases. so we are open to the, Darren loves to do a chat, GPT and else and get some cool like insights, right? yeah. If you can make yourself more efficient, improve your productivity. Yeah. I love it. Jenny McLean (13:54.507) specific nuanced feedback and input that comes from frankly years of expertise in the space of doing and seeing how like your company might perform in the current landscape or you some of those more nuanced pieces. And so we are open to the tools. Darren loves to do a chat GPT analysis and get some cool like insights, right? Carrie Robinson (14:00.503) the space and doing them and see how like your company might perform in the current landscape or you some of those more nuanced pieces and so we are open to the tools. Darren loves to do a chat GPT analysis and get some cool like insights right? Oh yeah you make yourself more efficient. I love it. Even if you want to talk about our software, we're software internally. We're going to be, we'll be an AI company. Darren Engels (14:21.846) Even if you want to talk about our software, we're software internally. We're going to be, we'll be an AI company. It's interesting. you maybe you want to talk about it it is kind of, we're going to be doing our own stuff. So we are building software right now. So like this is to give you a quick idea. We, when we work with a client over a couple of months, the output is a big PDF document. Jenny McLean (14:24.089) building software internally, we're going to be, we'll be an AI company. Maybe this is where we will use it. It's kind of, we're going to be doing our own stuff. So we are building software right now that will enable our team. like, just to give you a quick idea, we, when we work with a client over a couple of months, the output is a big PDF document usually. And that's Carrie Robinson (14:38.505) YouTube, you do your own stuff. So we are building software right now that will enable our team. just to give you a quick idea, when we work with a client over a couple of months, the output is a big PDF document usually. there's a lot of interlinking between sections because everything flows together. It's hard to do that. It's hard to make this great user or reader experience in the context of a PDF. And so we are building software so we can easily do the same thing in a web view where it's much easier to flow around ZGM Marketing Inc. (14:43.346) So, like, just to give you a quick idea, when we work with a client over a couple of months, the output is a big PDF document usually. And there's a lot of interlinking between sections because everything flows together. It's hard to do that. It's hard to make this great user or reader experience in the context of a PDF. And so we are building software so we can easily do the same thing in a web view where it's much easier to flow the ground, dive deeper, that kind of thing. And the next step of that, will be Darren Engels (14:51.118) And there's a lot of interlinking between sections because everything flows together. It's hard to do that. It's hard to make this great user or reader experience in Rihanna's PDF. And so we are building software so we can easily do the same thing in a web view where it's much easier to flow around, dive deeper, that kind of thing. And the next step of that though will be, we think there is potential that we can take a lot of what we do and train a model. Jenny McLean (14:52.257) And there's a lot of interlinking between sections because everything flows together. It's hard to do that. It's hard to make a great user or reader experience in the context of a PDF. And so we are building software so we can easily do the same thing in a web view where it's much easier to flow, click around, dive deeper, that kind of thing. And the next step of that, will be we think there is potential that we can take a lot of what we do and train a model. Carrie Robinson (15:08.439) dive deeper, that kind of thing. And the next step of that though will be, we think there is potential, but we can take a lot of what we do and train a model to enable earlier stage companies to sort of go through some of our process, like in a self-directed fashion. And so if we can train our models efficiently to, you know, prompt a person to, you know, put in this, ask some relevant questions, and then prompt them to refine it or improve it or expand, et cetera. ZGM Marketing Inc. (15:13.252) we think there is potential that we can take a lot of what we do and train a model. to enable earlier stage companies to sort of go through some of our process, like in a self-directed fashion. And so if we can train our models efficiently to, you know, have a proper person to, you know, put in this, ask some relevant questions and then help them to refine it or improve it or expand, et cetera, they can build out some really strong self-created investor materials. And so we know that AI is probably going to be the answer to that. And so, Jenny McLean (15:20.301) to enable earlier stage companies to sort of go through some of our process, like in a self-directed fashion. And so if we can train our models efficiently to, you know, have, prompt a person to, you know, put in this, ask some relevant questions and then prompt them to refine it or improve it or expand, et cetera, they can build out some really strong self-created investor materials. And so we know that AI is probably going to be the answer to that. And so, Darren Engels (15:20.344) to enable earlier stage companies to sort of go through the core process, like in a self-directed fashion. And so if we could train our models efficiently to, you know, have a person to, you know, put in this, ask some other questions and then help them to refine it or approve it or expand, et cetera, they can build out some really strong self-created investor materials. And so we know that AI is probably going to be the answer to that. And so... Carrie Robinson (15:38.311) They can build out some really strong, self-created investor materials. And so we know that AI is probably going to be the answer to that. so that's really exciting, but it's also a very daunting prospect to say, can I get our three associates brains to go into the computer essentially? And how do we train that? How do we make it so that we're providing real value and it's not just another tool that is floating around? Because there are so many. Right. Jenny McLean (15:48.825) that's really exciting, but it's also a very daunting prospect to say, can I get our three associates brains to go into the computer essentially, you know, and how do we train that? How do we make it so that there is, we're providing real value and it's not just another tool that is floating around, because there are so many. So. Right. But I think that's a trend that we're seeing, but I'm not in, is, you know, if I make a pitch deck and I throw in AI and so they act as a venture. Darren Engels (15:48.974) That's really exciting, but it's also a very daunting process to say, can I get our three associates brains to go to the computer essentially, you know, and how do we make it so that there's, we're providing real value and it's not just another tool that is floating around. Cause there are so many. Right. What I think that's a trend that we're seeing that I'm loving is, you know, if I make a pitch deck and I throw in AI and say act as a venture capitalist and tell me. ZGM Marketing Inc. (15:49.008) that's really exciting, but it's also a very daunting prospect to say, can I get our three associates brains to go into the computer essentially, you know? And how do we train that? How do we make it so that there's, providing real value and it's not just another. tool that is floating around because there are so many. Right. But I think that's a trend that we're seeing that I'm loving is, you know, if I make a pitch deck and I throw it into AI and say, act as a venture capitalist and tell me what I need to do here, I'm not going to get the same value. Carrie Robinson (16:08.247) trend that we're seeing that I'm loving is, you know, if I make a pitch deck and I throw it into AI and say act as a venture capitalist and tell me what I need to do here, I'm not going to get the same value as if I go to an expert who has been doing this for years and you know knows you've already taught me a lot even just today. I don't know much about this kind of thing. I'm a writer so I don't know much about money. It's like that kind of opposite thing but it's... Darren Engels (16:19.082) I need to do here. I'm not going to get the same value as if I go to an expert who's been doing this for years and knows, you've already taught me a lot, I don't know much about this kind of thing. I've never been there, so I much about money. It's not an opposite thing. if you have the tools as an expert, you're going to use the tools in a way that's going to be way better than me using the tool trying to beat you. Jenny McLean (16:20.313) I'm not going to get the same value as if I go to an expert who's been doing this for years and knows you've already taught me a lot. I don't know much about this kind of I'm a writer, so I don't know much about money. like an opposite thing. if you have the tools, as an expert, you're going to use the tools in a way that's going to be way better than me using the tool, trying to be to you. ZGM Marketing Inc. (16:22.546) As if I go to an expert who's been doing this for years and knows you've already taught me a lot. you can just say, I don't know much about this kind of thing. I'm a writer, so I don't know much about money. It's like that opposite thing. if you have the tools, as an expert, you're going to use the tools in a way that's going to be way better than me using the tool, trying to be you. Well, we hope that we can create a tool that imbues our knowledge or at least some of it. Carrie Robinson (16:37.813) If you have the tools as an expert, you're going to use the tools in a way that's going to be way better than me using the tool, trying to be you. Well, we hope that we can create a tool that imbues our knowledge or least some of it. Yeah, like our RIP that we think is special to how we the health companies. If we can use that and we can pair that with AI. Amazing. then empower you as a writer to create your writing business, whatever that may be. Jenny McLean (16:46.541) Well, we hope that we can create a tool that, yeah, imbues our knowledge or at least some of it. Darren Engels (16:46.606) Well, we hope that we can create a tool that we can use our knowledge or at some of it. Yeah, we can use our IP that we think special to how we help companies. If we can use that and we can pair that with AI and then empower you as a writer to create your writing business, whatever that may be. Maybe that really works really well. Right. Where we can blend our IP, AI, empower you to be... ZGM Marketing Inc. (16:53.189) special to help companies if we can use that we can pair that with AI and then empower you as a writer to create your writing whatever that may be that really works really well where we can lend our IP AI empower you to be Carrie Robinson (17:07.797) works really well, where we can blend our IP, AI. empower you to be a better business, which would then hopefully attract capital if you decided to grow. Whether that's talking with your bank to get a little working capital load or talking to some big crazy beast out of the valley. Wow. And I mean, because it's a daunting thing to come and ask for money or come and look for money. So that's something else that we've seen is like when you put AI into a situation, sometimes it lets people express themselves a little bit. ZGM Marketing Inc. (17:16.785) a better business, which would hopefully attract capital if you decide to grow them, whether that's talking with your bank to get a little working capital over or talking to some big crazy VC over the valley. Wow. I mean, because it's a talk thing. You to come and ask for money. Jenny McLean (17:16.793) a better business, which would then hopefully attract capital if you decide to grow them, whether that's talking with your bank to get a little working capital loan or talking to some big crazy feisty out of the valley. Right. Wow. I mean, because it's a daunting thing. It is. You don't ask for money, you're coming to look for money. So that's something else that we've seen is like, when you put AI into situation, sometimes it lets people express themselves a little bit more, it lets people... Darren Engels (17:16.844) a better business, which would then hopefully attract capital if you decide to grow them, whether that's talking with your bank to get a little working capital or talking to some big crazy VC out of the valley. Right. Wow. It's a dog thing. It doesn't ask for money or come and look for money. So that's something else that we've seen is like, you put AI into a situation, sometimes it lets people express themselves a little bit more. lets people... ZGM Marketing Inc. (17:36.848) So that's something else that we've seen is like when you put AI into a situation sometimes it lets people express themselves a little bit more, it lets people play around a bit more and maybe it would be a little less daunting at least as like a stepping stone to get to talking in person with somebody. Yeah, it is not, I mean I use it for brainstorming and like working through my book, through my thoughts, right? As a writer I'm sure you can relate where, well I have this idea, I want something that says this but it's not quite that and it's more this vibe and it's Carrie Robinson (17:44.899) more. It lets people play around a bit more and maybe it would be a little less daunting at least as like a stepping stone to get to talking in person with somebody. Yeah it is it I mean I use it for brainstorming and like working through my love yeah through my thoughts right as a writer I'm sure you can relate where like well I have this idea I want something that says this but it's not like that and it's more this vibe and it's it's so powerful for that I love it. I think where some people just forget there are limitations as to what it can actually do for you and you know Jenny McLean (17:46.361) play around a bit more and maybe it would be a little less daunting, at least as like a stepping stone to get to talking in person with somebody. Yeah, it is a, I mean, I use it for brainstorming and like working through my thoughts, right? As a writer, I'm sure you can relate where it's like, well, I have this idea. I want something that says this, but it's not quite that, and it's more this vibe. And it's so powerful for that. I love it. I think where some people just forget there are limitations as to what it can actually do for you. Darren Engels (17:46.382) play around a bit more and maybe it would be a little less daunting, at least as like a stepping stone to get to talking in person with somebody. Yeah, it is not, I mean, I use it for brainstorming and like working through my thoughts, right? As a writer, I'm trying to relate where, like, well, I have this idea, want something that says this, but it's not quite that, and it's more this vibe, and it's so powerful for that. I love it. I think where some people just forget there are limitations as to what it can actually do for you. ZGM Marketing Inc. (18:06.915) It's so powerful for that. love it. think where some people just forget there are limitations as to what it can actually do for you. I say to our associates quite often, writing is a thing. You can't just ask this thing to make this stuff for you and expect that you're going to be able to then go and talk about it. Jenny McLean (18:13.681) And, you know, I say to our associates quite often, like writing is thinking. You can't just ask this thing to make this stuff for you and expect that you're going to be able to then go and talk about it intelligently. And so for companies, I think there's maybe a misconception that VC or raising money is actually easier than it is. I think there's, and they think, well, I'll just get Chad GP to help me build a really great pitch deck and then I'll go and pitch and raise money. But the point we were talking about earlier is that. Darren Engels (18:13.702) And, you know, I say to our associates quite often, like writing is thinking, you can't just ask this thing to make this stuff for you and expect that you're going to be able to then go and talk about it intelligently. And so for companies, I think there's a maybe a misconception that VC or raising money is actually easier than it is. I think there is, and they think, well, I'll just get, help me build a really great pitch back and then I'll and pitch and raise money. But to the point where we talked about earlier is that. Carrie Robinson (18:14.783) I say to our associates quite often, like writing is thinking. You can't just ask this thing to make this stuff for you and expect that you're going to be able to then go and talk about it intelligently. And so for companies, think there's maybe a misconception that VC or raising money is actually easier than it is. I think there is, and they think, well, I'll just get Tatch and Piki to help me build a really great pitch deck and then I'll go and pitch and raise money. But the point we were talking about earlier is that any investor, whether it's ZGM Marketing Inc. (18:23.889) And so for companies, think there's a maybe a misconception that VC or raising money is actually easier than it is I think there's and they think well I'll just get Chad GPT to help me build a really great pitch deck and then I'll go and pitch and raise money but the point we were talking about earlier is that any investor whether it's VC or some other form of debtor or what have you there's there's people on the other side of table there's people signing those checks and they want to be able to know that they know who Jenny McLean (18:42.425) Um, any investor, whether it's VC or some other form of debt or, or what have you, there's, there's people on the other side of the table. There's people signing those checks and they want to be able to know that they know who you are, that they can trust you, that they believe what you're going to do. And there's a lot of authenticity and trust required in building that relationship. And if all of your materials, if everything that you're saying about your company has been generated by the computer, like there's, there's going to be a bit of a disconnect there. Darren Engels (18:42.51) Um, any investor, whether it's VC or some other form of debt or, what have you, there's, there's people on the other side of the table. There's people signing those checks and they want to be able to know that they know who you are, that they can trust you, they believe what you're going to do. And there's a lot of authenticity and trust required in building that relationship. And if all of your materials, if everything that you're saying about your company has been generated by the computer, like there's, there's going to be a bit of a disconnect there. Carrie Robinson (18:44.663) or some other form of debt or what have you, there's people on the other side of the table, there's people signing those checks and they want to be able to know that they know who you are, that they can trust you, they believe what you're gonna do, and there's a lot of authenticity and trust required in building that relationship. And if all of your materials, if everything that you're saying, what your company has been generated by the computer, there's gonna be a bit of a disconnect there. Of course there's ways to use those tools to build really strong materials, but it's just sort of that, ZGM Marketing Inc. (18:53.842) that they can trust you, that they believe what you're gonna do, and there's a lot of authenticity and trust required in building that relationship. And if all of your materials, if everything that you're saying about your company has been generated by the computer, there's gonna be a bit of a disconnect there. Of course there's ways to use those tools to build really strong materials, but it's just sort of that, like, I mean. Jenny McLean (19:08.889) Of course there's ways to use those tools to build really strong materials, but it's just sort of that. Like, I mean, it's just sort of this misconception like, Oh, like I can just, I can just get it to do X, Y, Z for me. And then that's good enough. Also, you have computer and AI on it, you're also completely complete. You're both bottom to bottom chat and you're team to have the best pitch down. Darren Engels (19:08.982) Of course there's ways to use those tools to build really strong materials, but it's just sort of that. Like, I mean, it's just sort of this misconception like, well, I could just, I can just get it to you. not that for me. And then that's good enough. Sorry. Go ahead. Also, if you have a computer and AI on it and you're also competing writing company, you're both battling it out on chat GPT to have the best pitch deck. Carrie Robinson (19:14.583) It's just sort of this misconception like, like I can just get it to do X, Y, Z for me. And then that's good enough. Yeah. Sorry, go ahead. I'll just say also if you have a computer and AI on it, you're also competing writing company. Right. ZGM Marketing Inc. (19:15.504) It's just sort of this misconception like oh like I can just I can just get it to do as winds up for me and then that's good enough. Feels like well, sorry go ahead Also if you have a computer and you're also competing writing company, right? You're both battling out on chat gbt to have the best pitch deck. I would fail miserably. You both have gone differentiated all of sudden. There's a little authenticity there. Carrie Robinson (19:31.733) You're both battling it out on chat. You have the best pitch deck. Well, we know who would win that one. I would. They both about differentiating all of a sudden. Right. There's no authenticity there. And this is also a multi-month process to secure capital, which brings back the relationship task. Darren Engels (19:38.816) You both have not differentiated all of sudden, right? There's no authenticity there. And it is also a multi-month process to secure capital, which brings back the relationship to Aspen. ZGM Marketing Inc. (19:45.408) And it is also a multi-month process to secure capital. Which brings back the relationship to us. Yeah, it feels like by the time you're ready to put a pitch deck together, it feels like you're putting the candle on the cake at that point, right? Whereas I think, know, but there's so much like that has to happen for that pitch deck to actually Carrie Robinson (19:56.339) Yeah, right. feels like by the time you're ready to put a pitch deck together, it feels like you're putting the candle on the cake at that point, right? Whereas I think that's such a good way to say it. Yeah, but. Darren Engels (19:56.366) Right, I think it's feels like by the time period of fish that have gathered it feels like you're putting a lot of one, right? That's such a good way to say it Yeah, but it's so much like that has to happen for that to check actually like it's the cover letter for you, right? I think it feels like Without understanding all that Jenny McLean (20:06.553) That's such a way of saying it. 100%. Yeah. But so much of that has to happen for that pitch that can happen. It's the cover letter for the company, right? But I think it would be a lot of time to reflect on that pitch deck without expanding all of the work that needs to happen. And that's essentially what you're also pitching. So to your point, if you just go on to the next speaker and you start bending over your pitch deck, you've already got your lead at stake. Carrie Robinson (20:10.291) There's so much like that hasn't happened for that pitch deck to actually like it's the cover letter for your whole company, right? But I think it feels like a lot of companies are rushing to that pitch deck without understanding all that work that needs to happen ahead of that. And that's essentially what you're also educating. But so to your point of if you just go on a chat, you can T and you start banging out your pitch deck. You've already kind of made a mistake because you haven't done that work that you don't even know the question to ask. Right. So ZGM Marketing Inc. (20:14.733) Like it's the cover letter for your whole company, right? But I think it feels like a lot of companies are rushing to that pitch deck without understanding all that work that needs to happen ahead of that. And that's essentially what you're also educating with. So to your point of if you just go on a chat GBT and you start banging out your pitch deck, you've already kind of made a mistake because you haven't done that work that you don't even know the question to ask, right? So how could you possibly find it? Darren Engels (20:25.934) essentially what you're also educating, but so to your point, if you just want to chat to your team and you start banging on your fist jack, you've already made a mistake. You haven't done that work that you don't even know the question to ask. So how could you possibly find it? And so earlier, Dari mentioned that we think about this thing called unconscious incompetence. And that's sort of like, don't even know what you don't know. And that's sort of, think, a lot of those really early stage folks Jenny McLean (20:36.249) have a fun day, don't even know the question to ask. So how can you possibly win it? And so earlier, Darren mentioned, we think about this thing called unconscious incompetence. And that's sort of like, you don't even know what you don't know. And that's sort of, think, what a lot of really early stage folks, they're sort of stuck in that and they rush to make a pitch deck. It's sort of like, as marketers, I mean, you'll appreciate this. Somebody's like, oh, I'm starting a company. I have a great logo. Carrie Robinson (20:40.215) How can you possibly find it? And so earlier, Darren mentioned we think about this thing called unconscious incompetence. And that's sort of like you don't even know what you don't know. And that's sort of, think, a lot of those really early stage folks, they're sort of stuck in that and they rushed me to pitch that. It's sort of like as marketers, I mean, you'll appreciate this. Somebody's like, oh, I'm starting a company. I have a great logo. ZGM Marketing Inc. (20:42.191) And so earlier Darren mentioned, we think about this thing called unconscious incompetence. And that's sort of like, don't even know what you don't know. And that's sort of, think, what a lot of those really early stage folks, they were sort of stuck in that and they rushed to make the pitch deck. It's sort of like, as Mark said, I think we all appreciate this. Somebody's like, oh, I'm starting a new company. I have a great logo. Oh, god. What else? Darren Engels (20:54.776) they're sort of stuck in that and they rush to make the pick deck. And sort of like as marketers, I mean, you'll appreciate this. Somebody's like, I'm starting it for me. I have a great logo. so, you know, we see founders really move through like this unconscious incompetence to like conscious incompetence. So at least now I know enough to know there's a real know what I'm going to ask. I'm going to look around, going to educate myself. Jenny McLean (21:05.624) You're like, okay, cool. What else, right? And so, you know, we see founders really move through like this unconscious incompetence to like conscious incompetence. Okay, so at least now I know enough to know, I don't know what I'm going to ask. I'm going to look around, I'm going to educate myself. And then as they get through conscious or unconscious competence, which one comes first? Whatever, you get better. You actually gain confidence. Carrie Robinson (21:10.135) And so, you know, we see founders really move through like this unconscious incompetence to like conscious incompetence. Okay, so at least now I know enough to know, I don't know what I'm going to ask. I'm going to look around, going to educate myself. And then as they get through conscious or unconscious confidence, which one comes first? Whatever you get better. You get some confidence, right? then eventually you get to unconscious confidence where you you're so good. don't even have to. It just comes out. ZGM Marketing Inc. (21:11.406) And so we see founders really move through this unconscious incompetence to like conscious incompetence. Okay, so at least now I know enough to know, I don't know what I'm gonna ask, I'm gonna look around, I'm educate myself. And then as they get through unconscious confidence, which one comes first? Whatever, you get better. You get to be actually incompetent. eventually you get to unconscious confidence where you're so good, don't even have to do it. It just comes natural. Darren Engels (21:23.894) And then as they get through unconscious confidence, which one comes first? Whatever. You get better. You actually gain confidence. And eventually you get to unconscious confidence where you're so good, you don't even It's just natural. It just comes natural. But that's a long journey. It's those early unconscious That's lot of training type stuff, right? Yeah. And I think sometimes, to your point, sometimes that's what people think. Like, I can just skip all that. Jenny McLean (21:33.473) And then eventually you get to unconscious confidence where you're so good, you don't even have to think about it. It just comes natural. But that's a long journey. so those early unconscious... Yeah, and I think sometimes, to your point, sometimes that's what people think, like, I can just skip work about that. Because I have AI and can tell you what all this is. It's like, then did you learn anything? Did you actually take it to the end? And are you well-quit to learn it? Carrie Robinson (21:40.007) But that's a long journey. so that goes early. And I'm not That's a little bit of training type stuff, right? Yeah. And I think sometimes, you know, to your point, sometimes that's what people think. Like, oh, I can just skip all of that now because I have AI and it can tell me what all of this is. It's like, well, then did you learn anything? Right. Did you actually take anything in and are you well equipped to run a company? Have you the competencies required or does it just look like you've got them? Right. But investors will always see through that. Yeah, that's pretty clear. Darren Engels (21:51.887) Because I have AI and you can count what all of this is. Well then did you learn anything? Did you actually take anything in? And are you well equipped to run a Have you the competencies required? Does it just look like you've got them? But investors will always be through that. Yeah, that's pretty clear, hey. Yeah, we're digging brand building on the American side. that's a good thing. How can you collaborate with a brand? ZGM Marketing Inc. (22:01.102) to run a Have you built the competencies required or does it just look like you got them? Investors will always see through that. Yeah, that's pretty clear. Yeah, well, we're big in brand building on the marketing side and that's the same kind of thing. It's like, how can you possibly live a brand if you didn't like come up with it? Right? Like it'd be so hard to infuse that into every part of your company afterwards if you still trying to figure out what someone else gave it up to you in a silver platter. I don't know. Jenny McLean (22:01.965) have you built the competencies required or does it just look like you've got them? investors will always see through that. Yeah, that's pretty clear. Carrie Robinson (22:10.95) Yeah, we were big in brand building on the marketing side and the same kind of thing. How can you possibly live a brand if you didn't come up with it? Jenny McLean (22:16.601) with the brand. Darren Engels (22:20.946) It'd be so hard to confuse that. It's to count the afterwards if you're still trying to figure out what someone else is talking about. Interesting. Interesting. am very good at this. bizarre. Wild. Well, other team this morning is talking about we are right now, like, 25 years after the, like, dot-com crash, right? Carrie Robinson (22:21.685) It'd be so hard to infuse that into every part of your company afterwards if you're still trying to figure out what someone else gave it up to you in a silver platter. It's been tough. But it's interesting. It's an interesting time, right? Like it's so bizarre. wild. Yeah. The keynote this morning was talking about, we are right now, like we're 25 years after the, like, dot-com crap, right? ZGM Marketing Inc. (22:30.358) It must be tough. interesting. It's an interesting time, right? Like it's so, so bizarre at the moment. Jenny McLean (22:32.761) Interesting. It's an interesting time, right? So there's our line. Well, the keynote this morning was talking about, we are right now, like we're 25 years after the, like, dot-com crash, right? And so we're sort of like generationally, like we're sort of in this moment now of like something new is starting. And obviously AI is sort of like very central to it. And it's really interesting to be like living in this moment and being aware of it and trying to ZGM Marketing Inc. (22:43.726) after the... ZGM Marketing Inc. (22:48.224) And so we're sort of like generationally like we're sort of in this moment now like something new is starting and Obviously I sort of like very simple to it and it's really interesting to be like living in this moment and being aware of it and Trying to guess where we may go Never never boring Carrie Robinson (22:48.789) And so we're sort of like generationally like we're sort of in this moment now of like something new is starting. And obviously AI is sort of like very central to it. And it's really interesting to be like living in this moment and being aware of it and trying to guess where we may go. It's never, never boring, that's for sure. Yeah. Tell us about it. Oh, it's like every day there's something new and wild that you're hearing about. I kind of like this. And we do talk to a lot of people who are like, I want to be the first one to Darren Engels (22:48.866) And so we're sort of like generationally, like we're sort of in this moment now, like something new is starting. And obviously AI is sort of like very simple to it. And it's really interesting to be like living in this moment and being aware of it. That's where we may go. It's never boring. Unfortunately. Jenny McLean (23:02.201) guess where we may go. It's never boring, that's for sure. ZGM Marketing Inc. (23:13.822) new and wild that you're hearing. I kind of like this, and we do talk to a lot of people who are like, I want to be the first one to do that. Darren Engels (23:15.534) I kind of like this, and we've talked to a of people who are like, I want to be the first one to do this, which is amazing and obviously admirable. I kind of like this idea of being, oh, one for second. What if we see some of the pitfalls, not saying we should be 100, but one for a second. Well, and learning from what other people are doing and avoiding the mistakes is something that's really important, or just taking good advice. A lot of founders... Carrie Robinson (23:18.743) do this which is amazing and obviously admirable but I kind of like this idea of being, well what if for a second? ZGM Marketing Inc. (23:19.118) Which is amazing and always memorable. But I kind of like this idea of being one per second. What if we see kind of some of the pitfalls, not saying we need to be 100, but one per second. Well, and learning from what other people are doing and avoiding mistakes is something that's really important. Or just, you know, taking good advice. You know, a lot of founders, and not to call any media, but a lot of really insist on falling on their face rather than listening to Carrie Robinson (23:25.621) What if we see kind of some of the pitfalls? I'm not saying we need to be hundredth, but what if we're second? Well, and learning from what other people are doing and avoiding the mistakes is something that's really important or just, you know, taking good advice. know, a lot of a lot of founders and not to call it a media, but a lot of founders really insist on following their fakes rather than listening to, you know, experiences, lived experiences from other folks. Right. Jenny McLean (23:31.449) Well, and learning from what other people are doing and avoiding the mistakes is something that's really important or just, you know, taking good advice. You know, a lot of, a lot of founders and not to call it any media, but a lot of founders really insist on falling on their face rather than listening to, you know, experiences, lived experiences from other folks. Right. What is that about? Darren Engels (23:43.086) And not to call it a video, but a lot of times, really insane on falling under faith rather than to, you know, lived experiences from other folks, right? But instead of cereal, you're like, oh, yeah, I'm sorry. But you work something each time, right? Yeah. And you to kind of avoid the mistakes that you've made before. yes, to be second is not always a bad thing. Yeah. ZGM Marketing Inc. (23:49.071) Yeah, God so many failed ones so far Yeah, I like to think so Yeah, it's really interesting so is telling is it Carrie Robinson (23:55.527) But a bit of a serial entrepreneur. Oh yeah, got so many failed ones. But you've learned something each time, right? Yeah, you so. You try to avoid the mistakes that you've made before. yeah, so being second, not always a bad thing. Yeah. Yeah, no, it's really interesting. is, Dylan, is it tech investment or what kind of profiles are you looking for? Jenny McLean (24:01.549) But you've learned something each time, right? Yeah. And you try to avoid the mistakes that you've made before. yeah, so being second, not always a bad thing. Yeah. No, it's really interesting. So is it tech investment? Darren Engels (24:12.994) Well, it's really interesting. So is tailwind, it tech investment or what kind of profiles are you looking for? We are pretty agnostic. We've ventured into a few, like we've got a few tech clients. We've got lots in the sort of clean energy, clean fuel space, battery tech. amazing. When I left my prior career, the goal was... ZGM Marketing Inc. (24:17.742) investment or what kind of profiles are you looking for? Jenny McLean (24:22.455) We are pretty agnostic. We've, we've entered into a few, like we've got a few tech clients. we've got lots in these sort of clean energy, clean fuel space, battery tech. I, when I lost my career, the goal was. Interesting people doing interesting things and don't be told one trick. Right. And I thought all that knowledge I had a really good investment in my career. Carrie Robinson (24:22.493) We are pretty agnostic. We've ventured into a few, like we've got a few tech clients. We've got lots in these are clean energy, fuel space, battery tech. amazing. When I lost my prior career, the goal was meet interesting people doing interesting things and don't become a one trick pony. Right. And I thought all that knowledge I had from Darren Engels (24:41.026) meet interesting people doing interesting things and don't become a one trick pony. And I thought all that knowledge I had from really good investment banking career that I had something to share and I could make it agnostic and I'm just gonna learn. I thought that'd be, I can just do that. We're halfway there. So we built it to be industry agnostic and. ZGM Marketing Inc. (24:46.829) I thought all that knowledge I had from really good investment making career that I had something to share and I could make it agnostic and I'm just gonna work. I thought that'd be, I could just do that. We're halfway there. Yeah. Right? So we built it to be industry agnostic and like if you went back to our vision, just like empowering world's entrepreneurs to create impact and value. Carrie Robinson (24:49.395) really good investment in your career, but I had something to share and I could make it agnostic and risk the work. I thought that'd be, I can just do that. We're halfway there. Yeah. Right. So we built it to be industry agnostic. And like, if you went back to our vision of just like empowering world entrepreneurs to create impact and value, means we can help anybody. Jenny McLean (24:51.865) that I had something to share and I could make it agnostic and risk the work. I thought that'd be, I can just do that. We're halfway there. Yeah. Right. So we built it to be industry agnostic and like, if you went back to our vision, just like empowering world's entrepreneurs to create impact and value. It means we, we can help anybody. I'd be super happy to have a Darren Engels (25:08.258) Like if you went back to our vision of just like empowering the world's entrepreneurs to create impact and value, means we could help anybody. I'd be super happy to have two guys in an HVAC business and help them make their business better. And then one day they could sell it and have a great retirement. Right? I think that'd be super normal versus like we have ZGM Marketing Inc. (25:17.101) could help anybody. I'd be super happy to have two guys in an HVAC business and help them make their business better. And then one day they could sell it and have a great retirement. Right? I think that'd be super noble. Versus we helped an EV battery company raise money last year. That was wildly... Carrie Robinson (25:18.261) I'd be super happy to have two guys in an HVAC business and help them make their business better. And then one day they can sell it and have a great retirement. Right. I think that'd be super dope. Versus we have, we helped a battery company raise money last year. That was wildly exciting. Right. Cause we're out here on the cutting edge. Totally. Jenny McLean (25:21.689) two guys in an HVAC business and help them make their business better. And then one day they could sell it and have a great retirement. Right? I think that'd be super helpful. Versus we helped an EV battery company raise money last year. That was wildly exciting. Right? Cause you're on the cutting edge of deep tech. You're on the cutting edge of I'm sure you're using the AI. Darren Engels (25:36.344) We helped an EV battery company raise money last year. That was wildly exciting. Right? Because you're on the cutting edge of deep tech. You're on the cutting edge of, I'm sure they're using AI on advanced manufacturing, advanced materials. ZGM Marketing Inc. (25:42.572) Yeah Carrie Robinson (25:47.807) deep tech, know, the cutting edge of, I'm sure they're using AI on advanced manufacturing, advanced materials. But I find that, like, I find both very interesting. Jenny McLean (25:51.561) on advanced manufacturing, advanced materials. But I find that I find both very interesting. Just helping good people build good businesses. before you started, did you find that you were just asked to help out or were you helping out? Also, you finished for the bank, you've got this experience and then people are coming to you or you're coming to another people that might help you. Yeah, I'll do one. I could just do this. Like, what was that? Darren Engels (25:56.418) But I find both very interesting of just helping good people build good businesses. Carrie Robinson (25:59.957) of just helping good people build good businesses. And before you started this, did you find that you were just being asked to help out or were you helping out anyways? Like it feels like you finished with the bank and you've got this experience and then people are coming to you or you're coming to other people's and I can help you with this. can do this. I was doing a lot of help. I could just do this. Like what was that little moment? I'm curious. When was that little push where you're like, oh, this is a business. Like, was that always the case? ZGM Marketing Inc. (26:04.331) And before you started this, did you find that you were just being asked to help out or were you helping out anyways? Like it feels like, you know, you finish with the bank and you've got this experience and then people are coming to you or you're coming to other people's, I can help you with this. can do this and this. then you're like, I could just do this. Like, what was that little moment? I'm curious. Like when was that little push where you're like, this is a business. Like, was that always the case or did it kind of come? Darren Engels (26:10.894) Yeah, I was doing a lot of helping. I'm curious, when was that little push where you're like, this is a business? Was that always the case for you? I found after like, I know six guys over the last week. Jenny McLean (26:24.441) curiously, when was that little foot in your way? All this business. Was that always the case or did it come after like you can only call it the ecstatic that we realized? Carrie Robinson (26:29.911) or did it kind of come after like you've been helping out six guys over the last week and you're like I should maybe make a business out of this? In my old career I helped a buddy set up a business and it just it made me feel good helping him and I remember just even like when he was because I had to work like I was working like six a day after six there's seven people every day ZGM Marketing Inc. (26:31.794) After like you've been helping out six guys over the last week and you're like, I should maybe make a business out of this. Jenny McLean (26:38.189) In my old career I helped a buddy set up a business and it just made me feel good helping him. And I really can't remember, just like, when he was, cause I had to work, he was working six days, six through seven, read anymore, right? Cause that's kind of the job. And then he'd come over to my house and we, had my wife would bake him dinner or whatnot. And we'd help, I was told we'd build financial models or whatever. Darren Engels (26:38.496) In the old career, I helped a buddy set up a business and just, made me feel good helping him. And I really, like, I remember just even like when he was, cause I had to work, like I was working like 6 a.m. to 6 or 7 p.m. every day, right? Cause that's kind of the job. And then he'd come over to my house and we'd, he'd have, my wife would make him dinner or whatnot. And we'd help, I was helping him build financial models or whatever. And Carrie Robinson (26:54.773) And then he'd come over to my house and we'd have my wife would make him dinner or whatnot and we'd help us, help me to build financial models or whatever. ZGM Marketing Inc. (26:59.02) and we had my wife would make him dinner or whatnot and we'd help us help me build financial models and whatever and it was actually super cute like my two daughters here or this table had they would like get a stool yeah and climb up and put bows in Kevin's hair he's like get off me I'm trying to work Carrie Robinson (27:07.141) and it was actually super cute. Like my two daughters are about as tall as this table and they would like get a stool and climb up and put bows in Kevin's hair. As we were trying to do the set, was like, get off me, I'm trying to work. So it really came from like, just helping like a fantastic human try to get his knee off the girl. Jenny McLean (27:07.155) and it was actually super cute. Like my two daughters are going to this table and they would like get a stool and climb up and put bows in Kevin's hair. we were trying to do like this. Get off of your head. Just helping a fantastic human try to get it. Darren Engels (27:07.958) It was actually super cute. Like my two daughters are as tall as this table and they would like get a stool and climb up and put bows in Kevin's hair. And we were trying to do like this. So it literally came from like just helping like a fantastic human try to get his idea off the ground. Yeah. And my two little cuties just ZGM Marketing Inc. (27:28.651) And that maybe a bit of the catalyst there Jenny McLean (27:34.521) Yeah. My two little cuties just decorated the room and all this while I doing it. That's awesome. Yeah. It was actually, I can't wait to hear that. It's such a good memory. Yeah. I've never heard that story. Yeah. Yeah. Just very, back. And that's what gave me bit of an alus there. Yeah. thought I had some interesting burdens and knowledge from like, know, like, working with some, like globally some the best investors. Carrie Robinson (27:35.477) my two little cuties just decorated him and Bo was one of my favorite kids. That's awesome. I can't remember if you just remember that. It's such a good memory. Yeah, I've never heard that story. Yeah. Just very, very back. And that may be a bit of a catalyst there. Yeah. thought I had some interesting learnings and knowledge from working with some. Darren Engels (27:37.304) Decorating him in bows while we were doing it. Darren Engels (27:44.238) It was actually, just, can't remember. just remember that as such a good memory. Yeah. Yeah. Just buried way back there. Yeah. I like, thought I had some interesting learnings and knowledge from like working with like some of the, globally, some of the best investors and some of them would view some of the smartest guys in Calgary. It's like, okay, I have a ton of knowledge here over the years. I can help. ZGM Marketing Inc. (27:56.798) Interesting learnings and knowledge from yeah Like only some the best investors. Yeah, and some of the smartest guys in Calgary. Okay, I have years. Yeah, I can help a lot of early stage companies avoid a lot problems. Yeah Carrie Robinson (28:01.557) like globally some of the best investors and some of the sort of guys in Calgary. like, okay, I have a ton of knowledge here over the years. I can help a lot of early stage companies avoid a lot of Jenny McLean (28:04.409) And some of them abuse some of the sort of guys in Calgary. It's like, okay, I have a ton of knowledge here for years. I can help a lot of early stage tokens avoid a lot of problems. whatever. Right. Yeah. I believe it. Right. There's all this, I think there's so many people who have so much experience and why wouldn't you listen to that? Like you can go and done that. Right. Darren Engels (28:13.716) A lot of early stage companies avoid a lot of problems, given what I've Yeah. Carrie Robinson (28:19.475) Right. Yeah. I believe it. Right. There's almost that thing. It's like there's so many people like so much experience. Why wouldn't you listen to them? Like you can go and done that. Right. Whereas it's like, there's this person in this new sector you're getting into. And there's this person who's done it for 40 years. Like you should be hanging on every word that person says. Yeah. Make your life a little simpler. Yeah. You'll probably learn a thing or 12. Yeah. ZGM Marketing Inc. (28:21.769) I believe it, right? There's always that thing. It's like, there's so many people like have so much experience. It's like, why wouldn't you listen to them? Like you can go and done that, right? Where is this like, there's this person that is a new sector you're getting into. And there's this person who's done it for 40 years. Like you should be hanging on every word that person says. Yeah. So Jenny, when did you come on board? Jenny McLean (28:32.633) Oh, this is a person that is a new sector you're getting into. This person has done that for 40 years. Like you should be hanging on to every order of that from the accessibility. You'd be dealing with a little bit trouble. Yeah. So when you got on board. So actually I officially, I joined last year, last May, full time. But before that I was consulting with Tailwind for about a year. Darren Engels (28:43.34) We make your legs a little simpler. So actually I officially I joined last year last full time. before that I was consulting with Tillman for about a year. Maybe a little bit more. met after a mutual friend. Carrie Robinson (28:49.075) So Jenny, when did you come on board? So actually, officially I joined last year last full time. before that. ZGM Marketing Inc. (28:51.115) So actually I officially I joined last year last name full-time but before that was consulting with Tillman for about a year Carrie Robinson (28:58.581) I was consulting with Tailwind for about a year, maybe a little bit more. I met Darren after a mutual friend introduced us. Darren needed some help on the marketing side because really Tailwind is at the end of the day, like it's a finance firm, but it's also a marketing firm. We fundamentally are marketing our clients. And so we did some work together as Darren was trying to just refresh the brand, redefine the company a little bit more clearly, getting away from it, getting a little bit further away from that. Jenny McLean (29:00.921) Maybe a little bit more. I met Darren after a mutual friend introduced us. Darren needed some help on the marketing side because really Tailwind is at the end of the day, like it's a finance firm, but it's also a marketing firm. We fundamentally are marketing our clients. And so we did some work together as Darren was trying to just refresh the brand, redefine the company a little bit more clearly, getting away from it, getting a little bit further away from that sort of finance. Darren Engels (29:11.566) it's a financial, but it's also marketing. We are currently marketing our clients. And so we did some work together as Darren was trying to just refresh the brand, redefine the company a little bit more clearly, getting a little bit further away from that sort of finance, you know, blocks that maybe they were in. so, over course of that year consulting, we just, it just worked so well and Darren's hit ZGM Marketing Inc. (29:18.539) We did some work together as Darren was trying to just re-infresh the brand, redefine the copy a little bit more clearly, getting away from it, getting a little bit further away from that sort of finance box that maybe they were in. so over the course of that year consulting, it just worked so well and Darren's like, will hire you. And I'm like, okay. But are you ready for me? And then so about a year ago. Carrie Robinson (29:28.545) of finance, you know, box that maybe they were in. so over the course of that year consulting, we just, it just worked so well. And Darren said, I want to you. And I'm like, okay, when are you ready for me? And then so about a year ago, Jenny McLean (29:29.689) you know, box that maybe they were in. And so over the course of that year consulting, we just, it just worked so well. And Darren's like, I want to hire you. And I'm like, okay, when are you ready for me? And then so about a year ago, Darren's like, it's time. I need you, you got to come on. And I was so excited to do it. I was at the University of Calgary for decade and fantastic working in the innovation and research sort of enterprise across the university. Darren Engels (29:41.23) I'm like, okay, what are you working for? then so, I'm here to help. Darren's like, it's time, I need to do that as well. And I was so excited to do it. I was at the University of Calgary for decade and fantastic, working in the innovation and research sort of enterprise across the university. And this is sort of a capital investment now, with, instead of researchers who kind of spin off of that out of their lab, which is some unique problem, working with companies now. ZGM Marketing Inc. (29:46.314) Darren's like, it's time, I need to eat up, come on. And I was so excited to do it. I was at the University of Calgary for a decade and fantastic working in the innovation and research sort of enterprise across the university. And this is sort of a natural extension of that, working with, instead of researchers who are trying to spin off tech out of their labs, which is its own unique problem, working with companies now just. Carrie Robinson (29:46.805) It's time. need to eat, come on. And I was so excited to do it. I was at the University of Calgary for a decade and fantastic working in the innovation and research sort of enterprise across the university. And this is a sort of a natural extension of that, with instead of researchers who are trying to spin off tech out of their labs, which is its own unique problem, working with companies now just. Jenny McLean (30:00.033) And this is a sort of a natural extension of that, working with instead of researchers who are trying to spin off tech out of their labs, which is its own unique problem, working with companies now, just some of them are coming out of labs, but just in general, they're ready to grow and they're looking for help to do it. And being able to help has been really, really a nice experience. Yeah. Well, and it's even something like adventures. You see all these people, like you said, feeling like hell is in this spot right now. We're so ready to grow. Darren Engels (30:11.69) Some of them aren't really out of labs, but just in general, they're ready to grow and they're looking to help do it. And being able to help has been really, really a nice experience. Yeah, well, and it's even something like adventures. see all these people, like you said, don't worry about right now. We're still ready to grow. And all these people have ideas that they're ready to move forward with. It's a very exciting time. It is. And you know, I think we're, like I said, it's also a ZGM Marketing Inc. (30:11.882) Some of them are coming out of labs, but just in general, they're ready to grow and they're looking for help to do it. And being able to help has been really, really a nice experience. Yeah, well, it's even something like in Ventures, you see all these people. Like you said, feel like Calgary's in this spot right now. We're so ready to grow. And all these people have these ideas that they're ready to move forward with. So feel like it's a very exciting time. It is. And you know, think we're, like it's also a tricky fundraising environment. Like it's Canada. Carrie Robinson (30:11.933) Some of them are coming out of labs, but just in general, they're ready to grow and they're looking for help to do it. And being able to help has been really, really a nice experience. Yeah. Well, and it's even something like in Ventures, you see all these people, like you said, feel like Calgary's in the spot right now where it's so ready to grow and all these people have these ideas that they're ready to move forward with. So I feel like it's a very exciting time. It is. And you know, I think we're like, it's also a tricky fundraising environment. Like it's... Jenny McLean (30:29.913) and how these people have these ideas that they're ready to move forward with. I feel like it's a very exciting time. It is. I think it's also a tricky fundraising environment. Canada in particular is a little bit, we're a little risk averse, we're a little bit slow to move sometimes, just culturally. And so we're really trying to remove some of the barriers that Garen mentioned and reduce some of the risk so that our clients are seen as, you know. Darren Engels (30:38.926) countries and environment. Canada in particular is a little bit, we're a little risk averse, little slow to move sometimes, just culturally. And so we're really trying to remove some of the barriers as Karen mentioned and reduce some of the risks so that our clients are seen as favorable opportunities. it's unfortunate that there is such risk aversion because there's a lot of ZGM Marketing Inc. (30:41.836) in particular is a little bit, we're a little risk-averse, little bit slow to move sometimes, just culturally, and so we're really trying to remove some of the barriers as Garen mentioned and reduce some of the risk so that our clients are seen as favorable. Carrie Robinson (30:41.847) in particular is a little bit, we're a little risk-averse, a little bit slow to move sometimes, like just culturally. And so we're really trying to remove some of the barriers as Dara mentioned and reduce some of the risk so that our clients are seen as, you know. Jenny McLean (30:59.801) favorable opportunities. you know, it's unfortunate that there is such risk aversion because there's a lot of opportunities that go unfunded that aren't able to grow. And we're just trying to do a little bit to help our community grow and prosper. Carrie Robinson (31:00.725) favorable opportunities and you know, it's unfortunate that there is such risk diversion because there's a lot of opportunities that go unfunded that aren't able to grow. And we're just trying to do a little bit to help our community grow and prosper. That's awesome. So if you're interested in Tailwind, if you're interested in it, I've been so good all the way through. ZGM Marketing Inc. (31:01.77) opportunities and you know it's unfortunate that the race sector is different because there's a lot of opportunities that go on funded that aren't able to grow and we're just trying to do a little bit to help our community grow and prosper. Awesome so if you're interested in tailwind uh if you're interested in I've been so good all the way through uh Darren Engels (31:07.624) that aren't able to grow. And we're just trying to do a little bit to help our community grow and prosper. Jenny McLean (31:21.337) If you're interested in tail-lining, where do go? Helloinventures.co.co and there's a little bit of information there. The most important one is the contact us button. So really reach out to us. ZGM Marketing Inc. (31:30.248) Yeah. So if you're interested in Tailwind, where do you go? What's the website? Carrie Robinson (31:30.353) So if you're interested in tailwind, where do you go? What's the website? tailwindventures.co.co Darren Engels (31:39.381) tailwindbakers.co.co. And there's a little bit of information there. Most of the time, we contact us on. So really reach out to us. have actually right now, we're offering free pitch deck reviews. I don't know when this is going to publish, but it's in the next month or so. Our team has decided we're going to do 25 free pitch deck reviews, real live beings reviewing pitch decks, not Carrie Robinson (31:42.668) There's a little bit of information there. The most important one is the contact us button. So really reach out to us. have actually right now, we're offering free pitch deck reviews. I don't know when this is gonna publish, but if it's in the next month or so, our team has decided they're gonna do 25 free pitch deck reviews, real live human beings reviewing pitch decks. We're not gonna use AI for it. We just wanna meet more people in the community. We wanna help people